The Logic of Liberals: Why I Might Just Take Your Advice And Shut Up with My Hateful, Intolerant, and Stupid Religious Beliefs

You Love HimIn the aftermath of the Supreme Court’s decision on gay marriage, I have been shocked and honestly very disappointed to see many people’s true colors emerge.  And I’m not talking about people’s rainbow-colored Facebook profile pictures.  I’m talking about some of the harshest, cruelest comments that I’ve ever read on Facebook in my life.  And they’re all directed at proponents of traditional marriage.

Within hours of the Supreme Court’s decision, my Facebook newsfeed was bombarded by celebratory Facebook posts, some by professed gay men and lesbians, but most from heterosexual men and women who viewed the whole endeavor as an equal rights issue.  These I expected; what I didn’t expect was that these sorts of comments should only comprise half of all comments dealing with gay marriage.  The other half was entirely unexpected.

The gist of the comments was this: now that gay marriage has been legalized in the US, all those intolerant, bigoted, hateful, and stupid traditional marriage proponents could go to hell.  The right side had finally won out, and the losers just needed to shut their mouths and go home.  Or as one particularly extreme comment read, they could just die.  Anyone who had the guts to argue with these victorious gay rights activists was compared to those who fought against the Civil Rights Movement, or at their very best (or worst, depending on how we’re looking at it), to the Nazis.

Just a word on this comparison.  As an established proponent of traditional marriage and a descendant of Hungarians who managed to survive World War II central Europe, I am appalled at anyone who has the audacity to compare people like myself to the Nazis.  Anyone who would dare make a comparison like that should take a trip out to Auschwitz or Bergen-Belsen before even considering such a statement.  The Nazis were responsible for the mass extermination of millions of people.  They were gassed, tortured to death, and worked until their bodies succumbed to exhaustion and starvation.  Their bodies were dumped in mass graves or else they were cremated to destroy remnants of these “animals” more efficiently.  Honestly, you’re fighting for the “right” to get married (and you can read what I think of that here).  These people were fighting just to live.  They were being massacred by the thousands, dozens dying by the day.  You just couldn’t get married to your same-sex partner.  I’m sorry, but regardless of your particular stance on the subject, I just don’t see how your plight can possibly compare to theirs.  It’s shameful to even suggest that you’re suffering in the same way that they did.  Out of respect for those who have survived until today (and especially for those who must have the misfortune of reading your comments) and out of respect for those who died during the Holocaust, I beg you to please stop comparing us to the Nazis.  That’s the equivalent to comparing yourselves to those who suffered during the Holocaust, and that’s just unacceptable.

IntoleranceI hope and pray that these comments have been made ignorantly, or at least as a form of serious hyperbole (though I would say that such exaggeration is wrong in and of itself).  Unfortunately, more often than not, this does not seem to be the case.  We really are being compared to the Nazis.  That’s probably why we’ve been told that we should rot in hell or die.  You normally wouldn’t wish such an awful future on your fellow human being.  But that hasn’t stopped at least some people from making such a devastating condemnation.

But even the more benign comments are overtly intolerant and hateful.  Even if we’re not being compared to Nazis, we’re being called “idiots,” “imbeciles,” “retards,” and a whole host of other cruel names.  And those are just the names I took from my Facebook newsfeed.  Some of these people I once called my friends.  But I highly doubt they want to be my friends anymore.  You don’t call your friends retards after all.

For the most part, I have avoided arguments about the whole question of homosexuality and gay marriage.  I’ve posted on it a handful of times, but it’s rare for me to engage in actual debate.  Why?  Honestly, because it’s not much of a debate.  It’s really difficult to argue with someone who wants to spend all their energy calling you hateful, intolerant, and stupid.  I’ve tried it a few times, but for the most part I’ve learned my lesson.  I’ll continue to write on the topic, but I’ve reached the conclusion that there’s no point arguing with the logic of liberals.  It doesn’t make much sense when arguments generally devolve quickly and in this fashion:

ARGUMENT: “The bakery owners were not discriminating against them for their sexual orientation.  They don’t believe in gay marriage, so they weren’t going to bake a cake for an occasion that they didn’t think was possible.  If the same couple had come in asking for a birthday cake, the owners would have had no problem baking one.  It wasn’t about the orientation; it was about that fact that the owners don’t believe marriage is possible between two people of the same sex.  It’s part of their moral code, and if we’re really going to have religious freedom in this country, we need to respect that.”

TolerationRESPONSE: “The bakery owners are intolerant bigots.  Of course they’re discriminating against them for their orientation.  Who could possibly think that people shouldn’t get married?  Of course they’re homophobes, and if they’re going to adhere to their idiotic beliefs, they don’t deserve religious freedom.”

ARGUMENT: “But there are gay people who believe that gay marriage is wrong.  Are they homophobes?  You can’t assume that all gay people want gay marriage.”

RESPONSE: “Of course you can.  Gay people can’t be homophobes, and they couldn’t be against gay marriage.  You’re probably just making them up to prove your point.”

ARGUMENT: “No, they really do exist, and the biggest reason you probably don’t know any is because for the most part, they’ve been ostracized from the rest of the gay community.  They’ve written blogs and books, and they even speak out about the intolerance that they’ve faced.”

RESPONSE: “They’re probably just religious, and it’s all been forced on them.  I’m sure deep down, they want to get married to another gay person.  Otherwise they’ve just been brainwashed to believe all that idiotic faith crap.  But really, if they want to follow the Bible so closely, they should start stoning adulterers and fornicators.  That’s what the Bible says you should do.”

ARGUMENT: “Well, that’s in the Old Testament, which was fulfilled through Jesus Christ.  We no longer have to abide by the 613 Jewish laws because Christ has taken all sins into Himself and died for us.  Christ gave us a New Law.”

RESPONSE: “Yeah, and that law says that we shouldn’t judge and that we should love one another.  That means letting gay people be gay and allowing them to get married.”

ARGUMENT: “But it doesn’t say that we should tolerate their sinfulness.  Loving a person means helping them to become better.  It means helping them to overcome their sinful tendencies.”

RESPONSE: “Don’t you dare call homosexuality sinful.  Christianity is a religion of the most idiotic and intolerant bigots.  We’d be better off without them.”  Or, as someone else so eloquently put it, “They should all just burn.”

Protect MarriageYou probably think I’m making this up, but I’m not.  I wish I was.  I’ve read these arguments on my own Facebook feed, as well as in blogs and in the comment sections of websites.  And that’s why I might just take your advice and shut up with my hateful, intolerant, and stupid beliefs.  I can only take so much name calling.  You can only be called an idiot so many times before it begins to take a mental toll on you.  And how can you possibly argue with a person who wants to compare you to the Nazis?  I’m sorry, but it’s just not worth it.  I think I’ll just continue writing my blog posts, where I can at least monitor my comments section, and leave the debating to those with stronger stomachs and more patience.  You certainly need it when you’re dealing with the logic of liberals.

Mary Help of Christians, pray for us!

2 thoughts on “The Logic of Liberals: Why I Might Just Take Your Advice And Shut Up with My Hateful, Intolerant, and Stupid Religious Beliefs

  1. This is an insightful post, thank you for writing Shannon. I want to respond as I was an offender of the very thing you posted about- if this is unneeded for your post or if you don’t want this here, I understand if you want to remove it!

    I admit I am one of the people that used a word- “idiot”- to describe people who were outwardly posting their opinions negating the supreme court decision weeks ago on my Facebook wall. I appreciate this post as I didn’t really think of what message I was sending to ALL my friends on the opposite side of the opinion scale. I would like to add for clarification purposes, that the post I made myself was specific to many people who were undermining the main issue with whatever their choice of words were for those that identify as gay people. The main issue, for many of us as advocates, was civil rights, and I believe we basically ignored any religious definition of marriage- some of us supporters outright denied it. I was not personally supporting rewriting a biblical systematic definition of marriage, but rather what marriage in America means now- and the ability to “have it all” as they say, which homosexual people in love did not have equally across all fifty states. This was in tax benefits and social benefits as well, as having a “second best” union in the eyes of the law was still not equal and in the eyes of other people it seemed almost like a badge of inequality.

    It is easy to forget, when you have many gay friends and have supported them and seen them struggle for so many years with bullying, intolerance, blind hate- to not turn around on those that do not support them and serve the same bullying and blind hate back to them. I was getting frustrated that a lot of outwardly religious people were publicly condemning this ruling and comparing the LGBT community to animals, saying now we should be able to marry dogs “its the same thing”, and one woman going as far as to say that LGBT people were pedophiles, so we may as well lower the age they can get what “they really want” [married to kids]. It was frustrating to read these things when, being involved with the community as I have been for so long as an advocate, it was at a boiling point that some felt they needed to share something that sounded so mean and toxic at a time when we should be celebrating that some people who are different might have an easier time in America in their lives because they are seen as equal humans in the justice system.

    I feel like the frustration got the better of me and I made a post directed at my friends who were not just refusing to celebrate- no one needs to celebrate what they do not believe in- but were outwardly condemning those who were celebrating and using a curtain, so to speak, of religion to make outrage sexual deviance claims that were mean and toxic and hateful and saying its because of God’s word, making claims for Jesus and God that I don’t think are based in fact. I don’t think it was needed for them to say that publicly during a time of celebration, and I used the term “idiot” and “moron” to define these people. But to avoid being specific, I guess I myself used a curtain of “social justice” and blanketed all religious people into it, which I did not intend to do. This post has really opened my eyes to the same sadness people feel about being bullied and having hateful comments thrown at them, but on the other side of where I have always seen them land.

    I will say, that while I was really just sick to my stomach that some people were saying really hateful things about the LGBT community, the Nazi comparison is deplorable, outrageous, and offensive. Its difficult to see both sides of things, and I think that it is therapeutic for BOTH spectrums to really take a look at the day to day harassment that each side receives. That portion of this issue is completely man made and unneeded.

    Thanks for the insightful post Shannon, I hope I didn’t offend you with this and sincerely hope that its okay to voice my opinion here in the comments.

    • Thanks for the comment Chrissy. I’m grateful that people have been so receptive of this post. Though we might not see eye to eye on the actual issue at hand (i.e. gay marriage), it’s refreshing to know that there are people on both sides of the issue who understand that blanket accusations are rarely true. I am sorry to hear that anyone should compare gay marriage to marrying an animal- every person who argues against gay marriage and identifies themselves as Christians should not ignore the fact that we are dealing with human beings, all of whom are deserving of dignity and respect. To compare a human person to a dog is just outrageous, and obviously un-Christian. I know that this is a hot topic, and people on both sides are very passionate about their position, but I think we all need to take a step back and really consider what we are saying. We should not be comparing traditional marriage proponents to Nazis. We should not be calling gay men and lesbians animals or pedophiles. Neither side should be calling the other idiots, retards, or any other derogatory name. When addressing a side, I think we all need to remember that each side is comprised of varied types of people. Needless to say, I’m sure I would not get along with the person who compared gay people to dogs, and yet I find myself on the same “side” as him. Unfortunate, but true. Though I cannot apologize on behalf of people who I do not know, I still feel the need to say I’m sorry that any person should have ever been treated less than human. In my mind, I fight for traditional marriage, but I also fight for the rights of the human person. Everyone deserves to be treated with dignity, and I’m sorry that this has not always been the case. I’m glad that I have been able to make some people see the reality of the situation: name-calling can only get a person so far, and if we really want to have a logical discussion about anything, we need to leave such childish behavior to the children.

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